Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Please note any discrepancies in any Gvox manual here. Please include page numbers with reports

Moderators: John Miller, Hotch

Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Doug Kerr » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:02 pm

In Encore/Windows 5.01, in the Zoom menu, Restore Level section, there are four choices: Fit Page, Fit Width, Actual Size, and Constant Scale.

In the Encore 5 manual, V3.1 (cf. p 79), the last two of those are not mentioned (nor shown in the example dialog). I suggest they be added, as follows:

Actual Size

Actual Size scales the display so that items in the score are nominally the same size on-screen as they would be when the score is printed normally. The exact scale will vary depending on the size of the user's display and related factors.

Constant Scale

Constant Scale scales the display so that (for any Staff Size setting) the size of the staff and of the notation items is fixed, independent of the setting of Set Score Notation Size To on the Page Setup menu. For a Set Score Notation Size To of 100%, this scale is the same as the scale for a setting of Actual Size.


Doug
Doug Kerr
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Denkster » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:24 pm

Thanks Doug,

These are useful additions.
Maybe they would be even more clear with images:
Page setup 100%, Actual SIze
Actual size-100%-Screen-Printed.png
Actual size-100%-Screen-Printed.png (52.85 KiB) Viewed 3070 times

Page setup 85%, Constant Scale
Constant Scale-85%-Screen-Printed.png
Constant Scale-85%-Screen-Printed.png (67.89 KiB) Viewed 3071 times


kind regards
Eveline
Denkster denkt door
PC (AsusM2N, AMD 64X2 6000+, 2GB; Matrox Parhelia AVP); W2K SP5; HP LJ6MP; Canon Pixma iP4200.
Laptop: Toshiba Portégé R600, 4 GB; Vista BU.
Denkster
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:28 am
Location: The Netherlands, 's-Gravenhage

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Doug Kerr » Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:23 am

Hi, Eveline,

It is important, however, that the user be alert that "actual size" is really wishful thinking in the general case.

I don't know if modern display chains report the display physical screen size to the O/S, and thence to the application. That might well be so, assuming that the user has set the "DPI" factor for the display to match the actual pixel/inch situation for the display. (In untouched Windows XP Pro systems, that factor is typically set to 96 DPI.)

But if so, Encore certainly does not seem to take that into take it into account in calculating the scaling to use for the "actual size" mode.

As an example, with the display system on my main workstation, one inch of score at "Actual size" is about 0.73 inches on the screen (vertically and horizontally). This seems to be independent of the "DPI" setting I make for the display system (which I understand is primarily only used to control the on-screen scaling of text, and perhaps images, on the desktop and in some applications).

The actual screen dimensions of my display are approximately 17.05" horizontal x 10.65" vertical. Its pixel resolution is essentially 99 px/in.

A quick check of Encore on my laptop, along with the information from my workstation, suggests that Encore works on the basis of that ancient assumption that the actual resolution of the display screen is 72 px/in. (Reliance on that number causes untold mischief in many field of information technology.)

So, if the actual pixel pitch of your display is 72 px/in, then Actual Size means actual size. Otherwise, not quite.

Does any of this comport with the situation at your place, Eveline?

An interesting discussion of the matter of display pixel pitch is found here:

http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/archive/ ... 90490.aspx

Best regards,

Doug
Doug Kerr
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Denkster » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:31 pm

Hi Doug,

You are right about 'actual size' not being the same as printed.
You may be right that the error is near 96/72 = 1,33, but that is coincidental, according to my measurements below.

My desktop screen
Screen size = 473 mm x 296 mm
Nominal screen size: 22" Wide
Resolution = 1680 x 1050 px
- I calculate a resolution of
    1680 px / 473 mm = 3,55 px/mm
    or
    1050 px / 296 mm = 3,55 px/mm
Nominal resolution setting = 96 dpi
I measured 587 mm on the Encore ruler = 469 mm on the real metric scale.
- I calculated, this screen reduces Encore with a factor 1,25.

My laptop screen
Screen size = 246 mm x 184,5 mm
Nominal screen size: 12"
Resolution = 1024 x 768 px
- I calculate a resolution of
    1024 px / 246 mm = 4,16 px/mm
    or
    768 px / 184,5 mm = 4,16 px/mm
Nominal resolution setting = 96 dpi
I measured 350 mm on the Encore ruler = 238 mm on the real metric scale.
- I calculated, this screen reduces Encore with a factor 1,47.
Denkster denkt door
PC (AsusM2N, AMD 64X2 6000+, 2GB; Matrox Parhelia AVP); W2K SP5; HP LJ6MP; Canon Pixma iP4200.
Laptop: Toshiba Portégé R600, 4 GB; Vista BU.
Denkster
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:28 am
Location: The Netherlands, 's-Gravenhage

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Doug Kerr » Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:06 pm

Hi, Eveline,
Denkster wrote:Hi Doug,

You are right about 'actual size' not being the same as printed.
You may be right that the error is near 96/72 = 1,33, but that is coincidental, according to my measurements below.

That's true, since the 96 doesn't mean anything that relates to this matter.

My desktop screen
Screen size = 473 mm x 296 mm
Nominal screen size: 22" Wide
Resolution = 1680 x 1050 px
- I calculate a resolution of
    1680 px / 473 mm = 3,55 px/mm
    or
    1050 px / 296 mm = 3,55 px/mm

Indeed.
Nominal resolution setting = 96 dpi

Doesn't affect anything pertinent; doesn't enter into our analysis.
I measured 587 mm on the Encore ruler = 469 mm on the real metric scale.
- I calculated, this screen reduces Encore with a factor 1,25.

Or, size of score objects is 0.799 times what they should be.

I conjecture that Encore thinks monitor resolution is 72 px/in (2.835 px/mm).

Your monitor's actual resolution is 3.55 px/mm.

Thus we would expect Encore to make things 0.799 times the size they should be (2.835/3.55).

In fact, per your measurements, they are 0.798 times what they should be (469 mm/587 mm).

Quod erat demonstrandum.

My laptop screen
Screen size = 246 mm x 184,5 mm
Nominal screen size: 12"
Resolution = 1024 x 768 px
- I calculate a resolution of
    1024 px / 246 mm = 4,16 px/mm
    or
    768 px / 184,5 mm = 4,16 px/mm
Nominal resolution setting = 96 dpi

Means nothing here.
I measured 350 mm on the Encore ruler = 238 mm on the real metric scale.
- I calculated, this screen reduces Encore with a factor 1,47.

Or, size of score objects is 0.680 times what they should be.

I conjecture that Encore thinks monitor resolution is 72 px/in (2.835 px/mm).

Your monitor's actual resolution is 4.16 px/mm.

Thus we would expect Encore to make things 0.682 times the size they should be (2.835/4.16).

In fact, per your measurements, they are 0.608 times what they should be (238 mm/350 mm).

Quod erat demonstrandum.


The 96 dpi (3.78 px/mm) setting arbitrarily:
• Tells the OS how to scale fonts on the desktop.
• Tells some apps how to scale fonts.
• Tell Internet Explorer how to scale images.

Best regards,

Doug
Doug Kerr
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Denkster » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:29 pm

Hi Doug,

You proved your hypothesis to be right. That is great!
The small differences ( 0,682 instead of 0,608) can be caused by measurement errors I probably made.

Does this mean, Encore only has to check the actual resolution of the screen which it is on, to get the data for making 'Actual size' on screen equal to the real size on paper?
Would there be a piece of program available somewhere, that can be fitted in, to enable Encore using the resolution data in the correct way?

Matt, can it be done?
Denkster denkt door
PC (AsusM2N, AMD 64X2 6000+, 2GB; Matrox Parhelia AVP); W2K SP5; HP LJ6MP; Canon Pixma iP4200.
Laptop: Toshiba Portégé R600, 4 GB; Vista BU.
Denkster
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:28 am
Location: The Netherlands, 's-Gravenhage

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Doug Kerr » Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:47 pm

Hi, Eveline,

Denkster wrote:Hi Doug,

You proved your hypothesis to be right. That is great!
The small differences ( 0,682 instead of 0,608) can be caused by measurement errors I probably made.

No, the comparison is 0.682 vs 0.680 - I mis-stated your ratio in my summary (a typo). It's very, very close.

Does this mean, Encore only has to check the actual resolution of the screen which it is on, to get the data for making 'Actual size' on screen equal to the real size on paper?

Well, Encore only has to know that value. I don't know whether that can be reported (in the case of modern monitors) by the O/S to an app.

But we could certainly have a place in Encore for the user to tell it what the actual resolution was. (One can even make little on-screen tools that show a bar and ask the user to measure it with a ruler and enter the length into a box.)

Best regards,

Doug
Doug Kerr
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Denkster » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:53 pm

Doug Kerr wrote:I don't know whether that can be reported (in the case of modern monitors) by the O/S to an app.

But we could certainly have a place in Encore for the user to tell it what the actual resolution was. (One can even make little on-screen tools that show a bar and ask the user to measure it with a ruler and enter the length into a box.)

Of course.

Best regards
Eveline
Denkster denkt door
PC (AsusM2N, AMD 64X2 6000+, 2GB; Matrox Parhelia AVP); W2K SP5; HP LJ6MP; Canon Pixma iP4200.
Laptop: Toshiba Portégé R600, 4 GB; Vista BU.
Denkster
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:28 am
Location: The Netherlands, 's-Gravenhage

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Rob M. » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:18 pm

Thanks for the analysis, guys.

I had wondered (but never bothered to think about) why my customary Encore display shows 10" of the score window ruler as occupying 8.31" in real space when using the "Actual" zoom setting. The "Constant Scale" setting expands that 10" on the score window ruler to 10.375". That's with an "Enlarge or Reduce Score by" setting of 80% in Page Setup, and a Size setting of 3 in the Staff Sheet. With an "Enlarge or Reduce Score by" setting of 100%, both "Actual" and "Constant Size" zoom settings translate 10" to 8.31" in the real world, i.e., a reduction factor of 0.83.

I'm running a 19" LCD monitor at 1280x1024, which translates to about 85ppi according to my calculation. This seems to suggest that my setup (E455W on WinXP Pro SP2) is assuming a pixel density of about 70.6ppi. But perhaps there's a small or cumulative error in my measurements. It's close enough to support Doug's conjecture of Encore's assumption of 72ppi if there are no errors in my assumptions or calculations.

It would probably be a bit much to detail the variables and their impact in the User Manual, so I'd go with Doug's suggested wording. But there certainly should be some indication that the "Actual" zoom setting is not necessarily the size that will appear on the printed page.

But yes -- it would be pleasant indeed if Encore could be told what pixel density to work with.
Rob M.
 

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Doug Kerr » Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:37 pm

Hi, Rob,

Rob M. wrote:I'm running a 19" LCD monitor

Do you mean that you measured the diagonal size of its display window at 19.0" Or is 19" just it's "name"?

Thanks for your report.

Best regards,

Doug
Doug Kerr
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Rob M. » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:54 pm

Doug Kerr wrote:Hi, Rob,

Rob M. wrote:I'm running a 19" LCD monitor

Do you mean that you measured the diagonal size of its display window at 19.0" Or is 19" just it's "name"?


Both. But let's be specific, it's a Samsung SyncMaster 940b. It calls itself a 19" monitor, and its diagonal measures out at 19".

But let's not confuse it with the landscape monitors that have come onto the market. The display area measures 14.75" x 11 3/4".
Rob M.
 

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Doug Kerr » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:45 am

Hi, Rob,

Rob M. wrote:I'm running a 19" LCD monitor at 1280x1024, which translates to about 85ppi according to my calculation.

For what it's worth, according the the Samsung specifications, the pixel pitch of the SyncMaster 940B monitor is 86.4 px/inch (pitch of 0.294 mm). Indeed the display area diagonal is specified as 19.0" (to three significant figures).

Best regards,

Doug
Doug Kerr
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Rob M. » Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:32 pm

Doug Kerr wrote:
Rob M. wrote:I'm running a 19" LCD monitor at 1280x1024, which translates to about 85ppi according to my calculation.

For what it's worth, according the the Samsung specifications, the pixel pitch of the SyncMaster 940B monitor is 86.4 px/inch (pitch of 0.294 mm). Indeed the display area diagonal is specified as 19.0" (to three significant figures).

Nice to have the confirmation that I was close to right. The difference is probably measurement error.

On re-checking my figures, I find I measured 86.1ppi horizontally, and 86.2ppi vertically. Somehow, a calculation error crept into my last post; I had worked out the horizontal pixel pitch as 84ppi, and averaged that with the vertical pitch when I reported 85ppi. (I probably miskeyed 1280 as 1250 on my calculator -- easy to do when not paying enough attention.)

Just for the fun of it, I took a look at my MS Word 97 setup. It spreads 10" of a document over 11" of screen space at a size setting of 100%, which implies that M$ assumes 94.6ppi. I'd be happy to assume measurement error again, and take that as 96ppi.

I wonder. Does Encore's assumption of 72ppi come from the old Apple monitors -- which, if I recall correctly, ran at that resolution?
Rob M.
 

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Doug Kerr » Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:42 pm

Hi, Rob,

Rob M. wrote:Just for the fun of it, I took a look at my MS Word 97 setup. It spreads 10" of a document over 11" of screen space at a size setting of 100%, which implies that M$ assumes 94.6ppi. I'd be happy to assume measurement error again, and take that as 96ppi.

Makes sense. It may pick that up from the O/S. Is that what yours is set to? (That's the default.)

I wonder. Does Encore's assumption of 72ppi come from the old Apple monitors -- which, if I recall correctly, ran at that resolution?

Indeed. Read this:

http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/archive/ ... 90490.aspx

I need to play with my MS Word 2003 and see what happens there.

Best regards,

Doug
Doug Kerr
 
Posts: 4412
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Alamogordo, New Mexico, USA

Re: Encore 5 manual V3.1 - Zoom restore level settings

Postby Rob M. » Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:05 pm

Doug Kerr wrote:Hi, Rob,

Rob M. wrote:Just for the fun of it, I took a look at my MS Word 97 setup. It spreads 10" of a document over 11" of screen space at a size setting of 100%, which implies that M$ assumes 94.6ppi. I'd be happy to assume measurement error again, and take that as 96ppi.

Makes sense. It may pick that up from the O/S. Is that what yours is set to? (That's the default.)

Quite so.

I tried knocking that back to 86ppi to create a 100% display size, but text on screen then became uncomfortably small, even if still quite legible. I suppose I could have reduced the screen resolution to 1024x768, but I decided I didn't want to go there. To pick up on an observation in your article, it's worth noting here that I work with the monitor just beyond arms' length, (~30") i.e., a greater distance than your article suggests that Microsoft assumes.

I wonder. Does Encore's assumption of 72ppi come from the old Apple monitors -- which, if I recall correctly, ran at that resolution?

Indeed. Read this:

http://blogs.msdn.com/fontblog/archive/ ... 90490.aspx

Thanks for that -- fascinating reading.
Rob M.
 

Next

Return to Product Manual Corrections

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron